Healing From the Rwandan Genocide: Henriette's Story

Sondra Martin Hicks  00:13

Hi, everyone. Thanks so much for joining us today on the Sondra Heartstone show. I'm really honored that you have decided to spend a few minutes with us today. I also hope you're checking out Heartstonenetwork.com. This is a place where we are aggregating lots of content that we hope it'll inspire you, teach you, motivate you, encourage you. There's all kinds of content teaching, testimonials, you name it. Well, let's talk about propaganda. We all know that propaganda in the United States is causing all kinds of crazy harm. It's manipulating people, it's lying. It's like there's a dark agenda that's trying to change America to be whatever they want America to be. And we're gonna give an example of the harm of propaganda. Today, Henriette Mutegwaraba is going to talk in depth about her experience in the Rwanda genocide. She lost her entire family, and it was all because of propaganda. You're going to hear her story when we come back. 

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  01:45

Welcome back. Thanks so much for joining us today. As I promised, we're going to dive into our special story today. Let me bring on my friend, Henriette Mutegwaraba. Henriette, thanks so much for coming on today and being willing to share your very, wow, difficult story. How are you today?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  02:07

I am doing fantastic. Thank you for us. Well,

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  02:09

that's awesome. Henriette, let's just get right into it. I have told everyone. You survived the Rwanda genocide. It's actually the Rwanda genocide of the Tutsi tribe. So just tell us some more about that.

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  02:25

I don't know where to start. But where do you want me to start?  Do you wanted to know the histor? Do you wanted to know the aftermath of genocide? Because that story is working. Let's

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  02:38

start with the day. You know, tensions and stuff had built up I think, you know, by now in history, we know there was, you know, a genocide. But I really would like to get your personal story like what happened to you? Like you woke up one morning, and you heard something on the radio. What did you hear on the radio on that fateful morning?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  02:58

Well the the oppression began years years, since before 90s, in the 50s. That's when the government started oppressing the Tutsi tribe. But then that's a long story in the 90s. They includes the propaganda and they have these anti Tutsi propaganda. And they even come up with the 10 commandments, who to 10 commandments, which will, describing to the tribe as the enemy of the country, or enemy of a whole lot of people. And the young people, really well in college, they cited hatred against Tutsi. Then the government had lockbox everywhere in the country to prevent to prevent Tutsis to escape. And that time from the 90s, we as a Tutsis were not allowed to leave the country because the government was planning what they called apocalypse. That was the end of the Tutsis, human being and our country that everybody was waiting to be killed.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  04:13

Because I know I read that the goal was to kill 1000 Tutsis every hour.

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  04:19

Every hour. Yes, wow. And they made the list they made the list of every Tutsi in a neighborhood and then everywhere, so they knew where we lived. They knew our everyday activities. And then April the seventh there, the genocide began all over the country. There was a radio called Lt. lt LM does a French that was encouraging, inciting people and telling them you need to grab your weapons and search them in their homes and kill them all. And are we telling them that hey, if you were killed, all of them were going to take what they had, we're going to take their lands, then we're going to keep their animals, we're going to take their wives and we're going to do so much inciting. But the propaganda prior to this genocide was really, really intense. If I remember every Saturday in the neighborhood that we have these meetings with, with the radio and the music, this music was nothing. The music was pretty much in our language, but talk talking about singing about hits, and how many they're going to kill them. How are they going to kill us? And we

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  05:39

no longer let me Henriette, just give everybody a visual on the this. You weren't like living in one part of town, and the and the other tribes somewhere else. You guys weren't like neighbors, these were neighbors and people you worked with and played with and even married, right?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  05:54

Yes, that will neighbors. But also remember, on the top of that there was the government, the government was the one who was controlling and, and planning these events. This propaganda every Saturday, they have these huge meetings with the radio, the leaders in the villages that we join and incite and tell them the singing of the music that was just hatred, and dehumanizing to the tribe that will call us next cockroaches. And we sit in their speeches that we say that in 59, when was the first killing happened, that we say that in a 59, we did not kill all of them. This is this time around. This is opportunity. We want to make sure that everybody is killed. Because we're talking about the people. The truth is in diasporas that we made a mistake, we should have killed all of them in 59. In 59, that's when my grandpa was killed. My father grew up without a father because I lost my grandpa, I was, you know, I wasn't there. But he had my father and my mother, they both experienced the killing in 59. So then, in 1994, the killing began. They use machetes, there were road blocks everywhere. They killed the people with a knife. People paid money to be protected. Some some some of them they would say don't kill me with a knife, I give you the money so you can shoot me. So there was people die that in a torturous way that human beings have ever faced in this world.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  07:31

Because this is like with machetes and stuff. Right. It's not like

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  07:34

Machetes, knives, craps, you know, you know, spears. And for so many years the with us oppression, the propaganda Tutsi tribe had no voice, our voice were taken away. And we learned how to cope with oppression. And that's what happened when there is so much propaganda and oppression when your voice is taken away, you get it to the point where to learn how to cope with your pain and your oppression. So that you can survive so that you can see the next day. So a million people were killed in less than 100 days. And then after we got a new governments, and now another journey began, because we had to give a proper burial to our family members. During that time I lost my mother, my siblings, my pretty much everybody in my family. I have one sister who survives. And

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  08:30

because you were at school, right? You were at school?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  08:34

No, I had the left. I had left the Rwanda so what happened before the seventh to the mass the killing started on all over the country. I was able to leave the country and go to a neighboring country. So when actually use escaped for fear of your life, right when I came back, my whole family was gone. And I had one sister who survived. And since I was older in my family, you know a lot of people was was we're gone anyway. But I had to be responsible to make sure that my family, my father, my siblings, and aunties and cousins were given a proper burial. And that's when they we started to exhume their bodies and buried them at the memorial sites.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  09:21

When I tell me about that morning that you woke up and what did you hear on the radio?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  09:27

So the radio over the radio, the beginning have that right away when they started to get there with telling people get up, bring your machetes, grab your knife, go find every Tutsi enemy cockroaches, where they're hidden. We're gonna kill them. Today is the day and they were gonna say that they're gonna tell those militias that you're going to be rewarded after you kill those enemies.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  09:55

And you couldn't call your family and warn them?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  09:57

No, I couldn't that time because well, the when genocided began, you know, put it there was no phones anywhere. But also, there was no way to there's no way you can be in touch with somebody in a in a in a place where there is a word or, you know, people are hiding and all over the place and who is going to Yeah,

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  10:19

I can't imagine. So you're sitting in another place and you've heard that they're coming after everyone to kill them. And you're just sitting there wondering, like with no new information, I mean, what was that day like?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  10:31

It was a I would say, that was a terrible day of my life, because you feel your heart place. And you'll feel that you kind of in denial. Is this really happening to me, it's weird that this happens to another human being is where you kind of wish it was a dream. And that the next morning, when you wake up, is going to be just like a nightmare is going to be like an any other day say, Oh, I had a bad dream. That was a terrible dream. But it wasn't a dream. It was happening. And it was happening to my family.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  11:06

So how long after those 100 days? I mean, did you know anything about your family for 100 days, or were you left in the dark for those 100 days?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  11:16

Those 100 days, I didn't know anything about my family, but the time I was living not far from the border of Rwanda. And I've seen a lot of refugees, you know, people were escaping the killings and coming in with a wounded, you know, wounded people and I remember, there was an hospital by the border where the Red Cross and other humanitarian cause we go and pick up the refugees and take them to the hospital, most of most of them were missing ramps, you know, eyes, breathing. And I remember one time I get up, I say, I need to go search among those people. And maybe, maybe somebody from my family kind of be among these refugees. And I took days, I went to hospitals, and I helped a little bit in the hospital was overwhelmed with a lot of wounded people, people with dying in a tent outside. And I searched, and I didn't see anybody from my family. And I had my father's cousin who lived in a city. And he sent me a letter, I was in a village at that time and a Bruni, and he sent me a letter saying that I'm so sorry about everybody's gone. And that time I didn't even know that my sister had survived.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  12:32

Oh, my gosh. Henriette, when did you go back to your village?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  12:40

Right away after 90 the beginning of 90 the genocide and in July. So right away in the beginning of 94. January, I had to go back. But it was at this time that in my mind, I didn't want it to go. There was nothing to go back for. And I told myself that I'm going to be a refugee forever. I'm going to stay in this country, my whole family is gone. So why should I go back to Rwanda? And and for some reason, that is so good. And some for some reason, my sister had survived. And for some reason, somebody who knew that I was still alive, told my sister that was in a Bruni, and my sister sent me a letter. And the letter was saying that everybody was killed, but I survived. So when I saw the letter, I was like, Wow, I can't believe I couldn't believe that my little sister survived. She was 13 years that time. And I told myself, this is the reason I can't go back to Rwanda. And I packed my things, everything that a little bit of that I had, and went back to Rwanda to meet with her. And that time, she was living with my aunt who was married to a Hutu man, and that's how my auntie survives.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  14:00

Oh, my gosh. So how do you how does a person recover from that? How did you move on? How did you function? I mean, that's just too much trauma.

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  14:13

It is by the grace of God. You know, it's I will say that I lived in those dark moments, the aftermath of genocide. From losing all the homes we had my father, my parents had the two homes, and that we had a lot of animals like with a country beautiful a lot. We had a lot. We had enough I wouldn't say a lot but we had enough and then you get from losing people. And I always tell people that it took me years to remember that my family used to have a house or cows or any other animals because my whole mind was focusing to the human being that I lost. Things didn't mean anything. It took me years to by the way, we used to have a home, by the way, we used to have days we used to have days, because of my whole time, it was, it was just to say that I have lost everybody in my family, that I will never see them again. But as I believe I know that we'll see them again in heaven. And when I give my life to Jesus Christ, He changed me and he changed me forever. He brought back the joy. He gave me a family, brothers and sisters in a church who were very supportive, very loving. And it I want to say that it's overnight, you get up in the morning and then yeah, I'm okay. My whole family is a killed but I'm fine and it's a pluses. But I wanted to say that it's through Jesus Christ, everything is possible. And that's what the Bible tells us.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  15:53

When you went back to your village, and you wound up the government put in a memorial, and you wound up working at the memorial and helping other people process their grief. But then how many years did you spend? I mean, this is really horrible. But you spent a long time helping dig up unmarked graves and just finding bodies everywhere, didn't you?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  16:15

Yes, and I would say that there is so much healing in, in serving others, healing, So much healing? So much healing in serving others. And I think that the time that I spend helping other survivors and including my family, exhuming their remains, the time that I spent at Kigali Genocide Memorial Center, helping other survivors and canceling and hugging them and being able to, to cry with them and let them cry on my on my shoulder, it did help me a lot to understand what a pain is, and how one can be heard from this pain to to become a normal person. And I made a decision that I don't want it to be stuck in phase, I made a decision to not be stuck in a pain and focus on Jesus Christ and be happy again, and serve those who are hurting, because there are so many who still hurting, so many who is still going through that post traumatic stress disorder, depression, and all of that in my in my country. And I love those people. It's my passion. I just wanted to be there for them.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  17:26

Yes, I just want to say if you're if you want to, there's a lot of really great details in this. We of course, don't have time to cover these details, but Henriette has written this book called By Any Means Necessary. You can get this on our website at Heartstonenetwork.com. You go to the store, and you can get a copy of her book, and I'll even get her to autograph it for you. But listen, we have a few minutes left before the break. Now after the break, I want to talk about the ways that you see the things you see happening in America that remind you of what was going on in Rwanda to lead up to the genocide. But let me bring on Darla Ryden. Darla is with the Texas apostolic prayer network. And Lindy-Ann Hopley, excuse me, is a preacher, a pastor, evangelist and from South Africa, and you have been to Rwanda. I understand Lindy, haven't you you've been to Rwanda and seen some of this aftermath.

 

Lindy-Ann Hopley  18:23

Yeah, I had the awesome privilege of going to Rwanda with missions groups. And it was so funny because I actually on the way back, I had missed my flight and so I had to get off in Rwanda, they put me on one of those motorbikes. And if I was to my friends who actually had a ministry, for those girls who, as children, lost their parents, and then were forced to go into prostitution. I mean, I heard stories of people that would give their bodies for a piece of bread, for Coca-Cola, because they were so broke, they had no one to look after them and so they went into prostitution. And so I just say to her, can we go out? Can we go out into the village? Let's go minister to some of the ladies. And, and it was so powerful, because God said to me talk to talk to this prostitute about baptism. And it was the wildest adventure. I sometimes feel like I can write a book on just 24 hours in Rwanda. Before I knew it, this lady said, "Yes, I need to give my life to Jesus. And yes, I want to be baptized." And as we started walking her back to the house, I would just say, "Ladies, it's time to get baptized. It's time to come out of Egypt. It's time to walk into the promised land," and people would just start jumping in. And before I knew it, and as you can see, Henriette just gorgeous, tall, skinny black ladies following us and all we had is this tiny bath at the house. And literally as their heads were going in, the legs were popping out in the public. And it just was so powerful. And then as after we baptize them, there's this whole group of women that are now out of prostitution that come for a Bible study. And I got to literally minister to them while the motorbike is back to pick me up for the airport, because I'm 24 hours later, I'm catching the same flight back to South Africa. And I got to see, you know, just how God as Henriette said, God can redeem anything. He can make what was broken, He gives us beautiful ashes. What's ashes? Something that's already been offered on another altar. And I say to them, you know, girls, I used to do what you do, I just never charge any money. And if God can save me and use me, I mean, I'm seeing people jump out of wheelchairs, miracle signs and wonders. I'm so humbled by that, because I would have thrown myself in the trash if I was the Lord. And, but He's amazing grace that saved a wretch like me, and which is a powerful time with the Holy Spirit flowed. And seeing that there are people and it was Americans that were ministering there to them, that have this beautiful ministry. And yeah, it was just a beautiful time. What a beautiful country and how sad what happened to them.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  21:00

Yes. Because a lot of the young ladies that did survive, they were, you know, raped and tortured and all kinds of things. Darla, do you, Do you have something you want to ask Henriette?

 

Darla Ryden  21:12

Yes, I was taking a few notes, Henriette. And I just think it's incredible how you were talking about having no voice, but learning how to cope with your pain while you are having to learn how to just live another day. And then I also think, you know, we all have trauma. I mean, Lindy-Ann's traumas, different, mine's different. I don't think any of mine compares. I don't, but I don't know that. Just like there's not level of sin. It's not a comparison. It's what we have to walk through. But the fact that you made the statement of first that you found healing by helping others, because so many times when we have trauma, it's so hard to give, because we're hurting so deeply. And then how you said I just chose to be happy. All right, I'm choosing to, to move forward. And I think those two things and, and also where we are right now, as a culture, I feel like we're losing generation, you know, younger children, because they don't, they don't feel like they have a voice. And you know, they're just coping to try to make it through the next day, the suicide rates up. And so I'd love to hear your thoughts on some of those, you know, how you how you were able to, you know, come come through this and have such hope, you know.

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  22:44

what, like I said, it is not a text, it's not something that happened overnight. And you just need to be aware that when it comes to trauma, and you know, they call it invisible wounds, because nobody kind of see it, only a you can feel it, only you can know what it is. And you feel it and you live with it. When it comes to, you know, invisible wounds it's so hard for people to share, to expose it because nobody wants to everybody wants to be strong or called strong. So I always tell people, don't be strong enough, but it's strong. Share your pain with somebody that you trust, at least somebody that is close to you, I'm pretty sure everybody has a friend is somebody, even if it's not your, your, your family member, just somebody around you who wanted to listen and to hear you and to hear your pain. It's very important that when it comes to invisible wounds that you share with somebody, but also if you need a professional help, it's okay to go seek for a therapist and talk to them of what we went through because of what is happening especially with the men in in my culture and it's men everywhere. Men are men, okay, nobody is not. They are listening. They tend to to not be open to the invisible wounds. They want it to be men, they want it to be strong and the end to end traumas will. PTSD is real. Depression real. It's very important that people understand that it's share with somebody seek for help. Right. Now praying is really good. You know, you have like in my case, when I joined the church, I joined the group chat. It was a very small church where everybody knew everybody. They knew where he lives. They welcomed me and I was hanging out with them. But also I learned how to pray. I learned how to take my pain to God and that helps a lot in many ways.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  24:44

Hold that thought Henriette, we have got to take a break. I just want to remind people By Any Means Necessary Henriette's book, we got to take a commercial break and we're going to be right back.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  25:59

Well, we are back we are focusing on Henriette's story today. Henriette, you were talking about prayer and how prayer got you through this horrible thing you've had to live through and I'm gonna let you finish that thought.

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  26:12

Well, I remember when I was in those days where I was in this dark moments of my life, and I lived with my aunts. And there was a time of one moment where I couldn't even go out and socialize with the people who came to visit us. I just want it to be in my room. And I couldn't even look in, you know, people's face. I was I didn't see any value, you know, so much pain. And then and I began to pray. And there was a moment I tell people that Jesus found me. I wasn't looking for God. I wasn't looking for Jesus. I went in. I knew about Christianity. I was born and raised Catholic, but he found me in a place in a dark moments of my life where I was angry to God, if he was there, and if he was laughing? Why did he lead my whole family to being killed? If he was loving? And if he was there? How about my little sister who was only three years? So but he found me in my heart one day, I felt that the only way that I can. I felt that this, this thing that I needed to speak to somebody and it wasn't going to be a human being. I was going to be in front of God and cry it out and tell him what I felt at that moment. And that's what happened. When I learned how when I started giving my life to Jesus and I knew that I can go and cry out to Him. That's how I receiving my healings. I used to have a pastor of mine who used to text message do you still praying with a lot of tears? Where there was a moment, there was a moment where I was praying with a lot of tears because I was hurt. And there was a moment when I was praying with a lot of tears because I was rejoicing to what God had done in my life.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  28:09

Wow, I just I just can't imagine all that you've been through. Henriette, what do you see? We've had talks where you tell me you see things in the United States, as far as oppression and propaganda, you see stuff building up just exactly like it did in Rwanda that led to these horrible things. Tell us as somebody coming to America, you know, you weren't born and bred here. What do you see this?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  28:34

I love this country. This is my adopted country. I love this country so much. And I love to one America because what happened to my country in 1994 can happen anywhere. It's just a matter of what is how people plan these. And it nobody's immune. It's what happened to my country or other mass atrocities that are happening that are happening in the world right now. There is so much propaganda that I see in this country. Maybe I say this, because I have lived it. I've seen in my country and what it does to to our country to our nation. I can tell that I see the divisions. People I came here 14 years ago, and I feel it and I see it. And sometime is I have a place. I feel that I can just scream and say "Wake Up Guys, something is happening here." And it's not novel. It's not it's not benign what is happening. You see young people, when when everybody who does propaganda, they're always behind the young people because young people they're so easy to be corrupted, their mind is so is it to be corrupted. So my message is to this country that I love so much, is just be careful of what you intake when it comes to propaganda and media. Save your country, save your family, and be really careful and make sure that it's very important that we start having this tough conversation and being open of what we see. We see divisions in our families, in a lot of American families, they have families that do not talk to each other anymore because of their political. Yeah, it's, it's, it's tough.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  30:22

What is it you think? What's your advice? What do we need to do?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  30:27

Well, I would say that as a Christian, as a believer, we need to turn to turn us off to the Lord and pray hard for the country. And we're doing it. And it's very important that we pray for our nations, we pray for our neighboring countries, we pray for our families, and the conversation we have in our hidden place in our tables when we are in a home. When you home, Sondra with Josh and Chelsea, have those conversation that build the country, that loving neighbors, and speak up when you see evil happening.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  31:02

So Darla, what's going through your head right now?

 

Darla Ryden  31:05

She's just giving us so much to pray about and focus in on. I think some of the things that are hitting me or exactly what she's saying. We're seeing just what I was just saying while ago about the the younger generation has a suicide weight of, you know, 40% or something, they're changing, they're changing their gender, because there is so much of being bombarded at them with propaganda that saying this is real. And yet it's not real. So I just I, what I see is a lot of, I think as a nation right now, we're in a lot of trauma, we are as a nation in trauma. And we don't and I don't even think we're aware of how heavy it's weighing up on us. And, you know, it's back to what we have spoken a few different times about we we have to not be afraid to speak, we have to start being a voice and stepping out as best that we can, you know, to, to bring this forth. And you know, this may sound a little crazy, but a couple of you know, a week ago was taking my son to go look at houses and we ended up going late to a restaurant here in town that's just a little pizzeria. And we sat down there was just our table and another table. It's 3:30 in the afternoon, not lunchtime, nobody's eaten, the place is called Fuzzies Pizza. All of a sudden, we hear this sound from the back like things are crashing and like a whole tray of food is fallen on the ground. We didn't know what it was. All of a sudden, I'm looking at my son, he's facing the counter going, what's going on? And he says, I said is everything okay? And he's like, no, I turn around, there's a young man that's bringing the trashcan from around the back, throws it on the ground, he knocks down the cooler that has the desserts in it, all this glass goes flying. I mean, he takes the the register off the counter, he threw the phone off the counter. I mean, we're just sitting there going, what is going on with this table at the back. We hear them saying you know, everything's okay. We've got it under control. And you're thinking what do you have under control? And it's nothing compared to what you're seeing, but it was a moment of pinch me is this really happening or am I dreaming? This stuff used to not happen. Nothing like this and that he's beating the door down trying to break the door, that glass door. He goes outside and and walks off like he's leaving, then he turns around comes back, beating the floor to ceiling window and all of a sudden I pulled the Lindy-Ann and on it and I started to get up and I was gonna dress that spirit. Instead, I went maybe I should just stay seated. And I turned around and pointed, I said, "in the Spirit of the Living God right now I'd say you spirit of mayhem, anger, frustration, leave in the name of Jesus right now." And all of a sudden the guy, not because of me, but I'm just saying taking the authority in the Spirit. He goes running off. And we find out afterwards that that the other couple are the people that were sitting behind this they were packing they had guns. And I mean, the ex cops were they ex cops? Like one of the guy was a cop. So I just that doesn't happen here, per se like it does in some of the states, but Texas hasn't been that kind of state or I you know, I've lived here my whole life but, you know this is what I'm saying is we're seeing this increase of trauma and anger. People are just, they're beginning to break and we have got to come forth with the sound that you are telling us, you know, and sharing with us. So that's, I don't know that's how it's hitting me. There's a generation that is desperately waiting. Go Lindy.

 

Lindy-Ann Hopley  35:01

If I can interject here. You know, coming from South Africa, we had apartheid, which was the segregation of races until 1994, which is interesting because of the Rwandan genocide to start at the same time. But, you know, we saw what propaganda and media can do when you keep putting gas on a fire of, of trauma, unforgiveness, bitterness and hatred, the Bible actually says that unforgiveness will lead to murder. And in the crazy parallel, because in South Africa, we then had, instead of the reconciliation with man of peace, Madiba Mandela president, you know, it was really a setup where we had propaganda and propaganda and propaganda, and the anger and the hatred within our black people grew so much that they started murdering white people. So it became a reverse racism, and no one wanted to talk about it. Because there's this, this false thing around minority groups, or this or that. And which brings it back to America, like wrong is wrong as right and right is right doesn't matter what the case is. And so when I started seeing the BLM Movement here, and I realized this isn't about reconciliation, this isn't even really about empowering the black people. This is really putting gas on a fire of hatred and unforgiveness that needs healing, not like, Hey, you're now entitled, because something wrong happened to you. Listen, my own father was murdered by three black people in my home. This is, it doesn't give me permission to now go out and take a battering ram and go after black people, we have to choose to forgive. So that's why I was out with a bullhorn because churches wouldn't speak up. And I'm like, who's gonna speak up about this? But you know, Henriette, and we've already seen this kind of stuff and weird leads, and it's like wakey, wakey. America, this is gonna lead to destruction, this is going to lead to murder, this is going to lead to bad stuff. And if anything, they're more racist against black people in America now than ever before. And the same with thing with black. This was a setup not to empower black people, but to really slander their name, and I get so angry. And as a Christian, I can't use the words that I want to use in this situation. But I went with a bullhorn, and I was preaching the gospel of Black Lives Matter Plaza, say, you know, this is the truth. This is they were leading you in the wrong direction to think if you just punch your pain out or steal Gucci stores and do this and that it's going to make it better. No, it's not going to make it better. And you are, you are robbing the the you're robbing honor and respect for your people group from that forth from the next generations by entering into this unforgiveness, bitterness and entitlement that came up like never before. And then obviously, that just created a lot of pain in all the races that are here, you know, like, you're releasing a stronghold of bitterness and hatred over the whole nation.

 

Darla Ryden  38:15

Well, you know, what I, what I hear from both of your stories, again, is you're sitting here looking at we're promoting slavery, because in reality, it just brings everything down because truth brings freedom. And yet we continue to listen to the lies that are propagated or murder, which separates us anymore. So we we we hold on to these divisions, which continues to cause us to separate where God said, Jesus came and said, Look, I love diversity, you know, and the one thing that we can't, you know, that none of us are in control of is the color of our skin. But the one thing that we have in unity is every single one of us bleeds red. And it was His blood that made the way for us to come in. So, you know, I'm, you know, this is this is heavy, and it's deep, and it's tragic. Yeah. I mean,

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  39:14

There's like a movement to take away there's a movement to take away our identity. You know, if you're an American, you're bad. If you're white, you're bad. And so even on social media, I've been seeing these things on social media like this TikTok that people post and they're like apologizing for who they are. It's absurd. I mean, all of racism is absurd, because when you think another race is inferior, to me that's calling up and saying Hey, God, I know you're perfect and all that however the day you created whatever group of people you must have been having a bad day. We don't have that kind of guts.

 

Lindy-Ann Hopley  39:50

The government fears unity. That's the whole thing. When you look at what's happening it's a tryanical take over and they had to break any unity they can to make the people weaker. Because if the people actually rise up together, we are more we're in the majority. And if you look in the Bible, there was the place where they were building the Tower of Babel, and God and heavens and the angels were like, We better go down there because they're too powerful united the way that there are, let's split them up. And he created the split. But then he said, Jesus said, "I come back as the cornerstone, and I will unite them again, by giving them all" What did he do? He split them with different languages. When he came back, he said, "Now I give them tongues. I give them all the same language that they can be united again." And so I bless

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  40:44

Let this be the prayer for this country. Let this be the prayer for this country, like just the way you say that. I will say.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  40:52

They want to get rid of Christians. They don't like Christians, because you know, you've a Christian, you know who you are, you're gonna fight against this. I don't see them trying to tear down any other religious groups. Do you? As Christians?

 

Darla Ryden  41:05

Yes. And I think too, is all of a sudden. And I think Lance said this not too long ago, Lance Wallnau and I thought it was good was he just said, "what's happened with Christians now is because we are standing up for truth that we know biblically the ones that are standing up. Now all of a sudden, we are against the government." They're looking at us as a political entity that has to be shut down because of what y'all just said, because they have to keep things divided. So it's this mix.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  41:39

That's why they're hollering Christian nationalist, because they're trying to get everybody to hate the Christians

 

Darla Ryden  41:44

All those statements. But you know, I, I agree with you, I think what the Lord is doing, and I'm, I mean, he was showing me about the separation of languages back at Babel. But now what God is doing is bringing us into one language with diversity. He's going to take all those languages, and all of us have different languages, and he's going to bring us all together to make this one sound that's going to come out and bring forth change, but it isn't. It isn't easy. It isn't. It's not without hardship. And I think that's, that was the one thing I was gonna say, with, with Henriette, both of you losing life, you see in scripture over and over the kings battled. And, and there was genocide. I mean, there was taking away of life. You know that that wasn't right. And so I think sometimes we get caught in wanting to have a loving God, without a God of justice, and a God of judgment. He agreed he cannot be separated. And many times we want everything that God can give us, except we don't want Him. You know what, in America, that's where we are. I really we want everything that God says we can have but we don't want him because we want to do our part. He's causing restriction and the truth in our mind me, I don't have freedom. Yeah, I don't have freedom and reality. We don't know that we're in we're heading for slavery.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  43:15

So now Henriette, I know you're doing a lot of fasting and praying, and I'm assuming you do a lot of praying over America. Has God spoken to you about America and any direction we're going or what needs to happen?

 

Henriette Mutegwaraba  43:28

Not really, he hasn't. I think what we need to do is to pray for our nation here. And we also need to pray for our neighboring countries.

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  43:40

Darla, how are you praying for America?

 

Darla Ryden  43:43

Well, I am at this point I'm my heart is to see the church wake up. Like we're talking about to understand the perspective of Kingdom. I think for a long time we, more of the Apostolic Church people, is that we focus a lot on the demonic. And that focus there and what I really feel like God is moving us to is yes, there are principalities, there are giants, there are things that are there to destroy, but where God's saying to us is, I need you to move forth for restoration, reformation and transformation because that's the God that I am. I can take something that's horrible, and I can shift it he had a people that disobeyed Him, they ended up losing their nation Israel, they were genocide trying to get rid of them completely. And in one day, he turned that nation around and gave them back the land. So we we can we can be overcomers and we can be conquered but I think our mode of operation has to focus in on bringing forth the restoration and that's going to take the church of, you know, the true remnant that God's calling to come into alignment with Him. And His purpose is speak for the sounds and begin to take culture, you know, the seven mountains in the ways that he's been with us, the way that he's made each one of us to take different areas and use our you know, use our giftings that the hardest thing I think so many times with people is that we if you don't fit my mold or what I'm doing then then I you know, okay, you're over here and God is saying, hey, I need Lindy-Ann, I need what Henriette has, I need what Sondra has, I need to get those other pieces and come together and utilize that wow, what a power we could be if we work together instead of

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  45:54

Amen. That's right. Yeah. Now as we wrap this up, Lindy let me give you 30 seconds to get your give us your final thoughts.

 

Lindy-Ann Hopley  46:04

You know, when I came to America, I didn't even know who my own president was. And I was convicted by the Lord I started dreaming about President Trump praying in tongues in the Oval Office. I saw the church uniting together and a revival breaking out and God spoke to me say Lindy-Ann what looked political, what looked like a Satanist takeover will be a revival. And my message to America is hold the line, advance the line and know that revival actually means to bring that which is dead back to life. So no matter how did the situation looks, no matter how dead the corruption looks, and the election fraud and COVID and this and that and this tyrannical takeover and you know and we've seen people drop dead I mean, what's happening is insane. It is like a genocide all over again. It is it is that bad. But the reality is God is able to resurrect the dead and for me someone who was super ignorant, didn't know anything, giving me a prophetic dream. I picked up a prophetic mantle, governmental mantle, for America. And he just kept telling me Lindy-Ann, you hold on to that every single thing. I can't share it now but every single thing and that dream came to pass and I want to tell you, revival is coming. Don't give up keep praying and worshiping the Lord. Yes,

 

Sondra Martin Hicks  47:17

Henriette, thank you so much for sharing your story today. Lindy and your story Darla, your comments. Y'all thank you so much Lindy I mean Henriette, it is just amazing to see how God is healed you. And I do want to encourage everybody her book By Any Means Necessary you can get it on our site Heartstonenetwork.com. I once I started, I couldn't put it down. Of course, I also have such a heart for Africa. I love Africa, have been many times. So thank you so much. And thank you to the audience for joining us. And I hope you will check out Heartstonenetwork.com where you can find our past episodes and you can see lots of great content. We will see you guys next time.